Don't Pet the Fluffy Cows: How to Safely Share Spaces With Wildlife on the Road

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome back to Learn to RB the podcast. I'm Tasha and I'm here with Jennifer. And today we're talking about wildlife encounters gone wrong. Now, Jen, early on when we met, you introduced me to a term that I had never heard of before called Taurons. And I just want to open the floor and say, do you want to explain to everyone around the campfire today what Taurons means? Because I think that you would do the best job of explaining it.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

So it was just a it's kind of a Facebook term. Taurons of Yellowstone. There's actually a whole group group of people that like, yeah, like if you're out there taking a picture of a bison three feet from the bison, you might actually get your picture on this thing. Or if you go out and you end up petting a baby moose, you know, and you decide to snap a picture of it, you too might get a picture of someone else taking your picture and putting you on two rounds of Yellowstone. And it's it's a pretty interesting dynamic, but at the same time, what it does is it leads us into our topic today, which is you know, don't be that guy. Wildlife on the art on the road is, you know, a whole topic. And so you're gonna come face to face with wildlife on the road. There's no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

And and you know, you just don't have to be a tour on.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Yes. So there are, to your point, there are a few different social media pages across all of the different platforms. Facebook's got Yellowstone National Park Invasion of the Idiots. That even has a trademark symbol after it and an exclamation point. So they mean business. Instagram has got Tourons of National Parks. You can also find Taurons of Yellowstone on YouTube, Reddit, TikTok. There are so many more. And when I was doing my research for this, I even found that Anderson Cooper did a whole report for CNN just about Taurons at Yellowstone National Park for his CNN show, the whole story. So this is this is like a whole thing. And it it may not be the kindest way to refer to a person, but it's obviously a massive issue just with the sheer number of accounts that are out there on social media, and it's not just stories, people are posting photographic evidence of other people that are just not making the wisest decisions when they are encountering wildlife. So Wikipedia even has a page for tourons, and they explain that it is the combination of the words tourists and morons, and we just don't want to be those people. Okay. So, um, what we wanted to do today is just kind of touch base. We thought it was a good time to just remind people of some basic safety and common sense tips while we as tourists are beginning to converge on our state and national parks and other public lands that wildlife call home.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I wanted to start out by talking, you know, I know you led with the tourons of Yellowstone, but in 2022, when we spent the summer up there, that was in full force. There was actually a couple that made the hot list very quickly that year because they threw their three-year-old daughter at a at a at a like approaching like bison. I mean, the dad just panicked. He just literally took his kid off his shoulders and threw it at the bison. And I, you know, there are some choices you should not make, but in the moment, you don't have to make them if you're following the rules. And and I mean, like, there's some rules out there to keep yourself safe from wildlife. And some of it is like, you know, just basics. Like, and so we're gonna hit the basics today, I'm sure. But, you know, knowing the distance to be from a bear or a moose or, you know, a sand crane. I mean, like, there's all sorts of wildlife that we encounter. You know, can I pick up that tortoise and take it home?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

No, you can't. No, the answer is no, it is always no. I don't care if it's a tortoise, I don't care what the animal is. The answer is no. It cannot go home with you. It cannot go for a ride in your car. Just no. There is a video that I saw today of um a family that decided to pick up a small black bear cub in North Carolina. Um, the cubs were in a tree and they picked up one of the cubs, and you could see the girl, she was just so stinking excited. She's like doing a little dance because she's holding a baby cub and she thinks that it is the fanciest thing ever. But they did say that because the cub had been touched, the mother did not take the cubs back. And so park services, first of all, could not find the second cub, but then also could not reintroduce the cubs to the mother. So these baby cubs were just abandoned. And so this, you know, this she looked to be maybe in her early 20s. For her, it was just this really exciting adventure of being able to touch a baby black bear. But for that black bear, it just completely changed the trajectory of its life. It, you know, got completely separated from its mom way too early, and now it has to live in state park service, getting cared for by humans.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So, um, so well, I think it's really important to understand. So, up in US Yellowstone, there's something called the um bear wolf sanctuary up there, and we were members of their but and and it's the best place in Yellowstone to be guaranteed to see a bear because they are wild bears in there. They're not like trained bears in any way, shape, or form. They're actually some of the lucky bears. And what I mean by that is that so many bears, because people don't go the speed limit in the parks, get hit and die, and it takes eight years for a mama bear to be able to repopulate the population again. So you don't realize the damage you're doing until it's way too late. And so, if we want to be mindful, bears are kind of my heart project. Our first year on the road, all I wanted to do was see a bear. Yeah, and so we were going to Yosemite, and I think you've heard this story before, but maybe our listeners haven't. But I was, you know, we were coming down to Yosemite Valley, and I was like, wait a bear, pull over, pull and Frank almost wrecked the van. And he looked at me and went, Do you mean that German Shepherd on a leash bounding through the field? And I was like, No, that's a German Shepherd. Okay, yes, yes, I'm talking about the German Shepherd. No, that's not a bear. And so that's that's you know, real wildlife. What we'd realized in that time frame was we were never going to see a bear. I don't know if your kids were told by this point, but my kids used to like to wear those parachute pants, you know, the kinds that went yeah, every time they took a step. And so we're on another trail, I don't know, a couple days later, and somebody's like, There's a bear on the trail, go real quiet. And now all we heard was there was no bear when we got there. There was no bear. So, but you know, you're not going searching for bears alone. You're not going searching and and have bear spray and know how to use it. Like, yeah, I I yeah. I mean, I have stories on that too.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

We're gonna get into those safety tips, but I think my first my first thing that I want to say to our listeners is that when you're camping, you're hiking, you're exploring, when you're out on the water, whatever it is out in the wilderness of life, you are in their space. So you need to respect it. The same way that we, you may feel protective of the things that you own, the place that you live, and the people that you love. Animals do too. And sometimes more so, I think for them, it's not just a matter of, I don't want to share my, you know, cherry coke with you. It's a matter of needing to defend what they have against a perceived threat. Um, so you know, Jen, you kind of touched on this, but because of that defensiveness, because of needing to protect against actual predators, animals are more aggressive in their natural habitat. So most parks that you're going to go to have some pretty basic across the across the road, across the across the park system rules to limit danger from wildlife. And the four basic ones are never approach wildlife, stay on the boardwalks and trails, never feed the wildlife, and never park in the road or block traffic. And we're gonna talk some more about how these four rules kind of play out in real time. But those are kind of the four that you will see posted in every state park, every national park that you visit, in some shape or form, they will be posted everywhere on websites, signs, everything. Jen, when you guys worked at Yellowstone, you've told me this story before, and I'm hoping that you'll share it with the campers because it's hilarious, but it's also it broke my heart. There was a story that you told me once about a camper who asked you about when they could see the animals. Do you know what story I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

So I actually have a sticker on the back of my laptop from that summer that that that was sold in the store at the KOA that I literally was asked every single question on that sticker. And I'll have to take a picture of it and we can share it somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Um, but the reality is people don't realize that Yellowstone doesn't let the animals out.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

So on the far west side of Yellowstone, there is a spot where it says, I don't know, something about bison pens or something. Um, the woman came in the store and she said, What time do they let them out in the morning? I want to be sure to see them. And so, you know, they're migratory animals. Like we spent the whole summer in so in 2019 we went to Yellowstone for the sun for a week. And in 2022, we went back for a whole season. And I can still count on less than two hands how many bears I saw in the wild from those two stays. And so, you know, if you're out there hunting for it, there's things you need to be aware of. Like, one, don't go hiking on a trail by yourself. Yes. Two, carry a can of bear spray. That's just one of those things that you need to know how to use too. You can't just carry it because most people use it wrong. But the reality is, is though those animals are going to come out whenever. And I thought things like moose were gentle and docile, not when they have babies. You know, so being mindful of their spaces because we're in their spaces. Yeah. But like that can happen in just a campground, too. Yeah. So one of my first experiences on the road with wildlife was uh 2013. We were giving the kids haircuts outside. So we were sitting down, there was a tree above us, much like there is right now, and a squirrel jumped down on Frank, ran down Micah's face, and jumped off of Micah and ran away. And so we did not intentionally make a wildlife encounter happen. Sometimes they just happen. Yes. Yep. You know, you had a recent wildlife encounter. You had you had a lizard in your house, did you not?

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yes, we did. And I have footage of this, and I really want to post it, but I think that Theo and David might disown me if I did. Yeah, I may be in big trouble. We had a lizard that got into the house and it was on the kitchen counter. And I just, my children are great respecters of the wildlife and nature. They also, you know, that respect means that they do not want to touch said wildlife. So when the lizard was found, David was like, someone needs to come take care of the lizard. So when we reached out to your family, because I was in the middle of work, and I think I was even in a meeting, and I couldn't like leave my computer to do anything about it. Theo came to the rescue and got a hold, you know, tried to get a hold of the lizard, and the lizard finally like jumped off of the counter onto Theo, went up their arm, was like crawling, and Theo was just like, Can somebody open the door so that the lizard could go outside? But to get the lizard out, Theo had to walk out of the camper because the lizard was on Theo's body by that point. So, yeah, you know, sometimes you're not even going outside. Sometimes the wildlife is coming into you. They come by their name naturally. They are wild life. There, there's no training them. They they are crazy. I do want to mention that when you visit any national or state park, that it is illegal, it is genuinely against the law to feed, touch, tease, frighten, or intentionally disturb the wildlife. So if a ranger catches you doing any of those things or anything that can be construed as disturbing the wildlife, intentionally frightening it, teasing it, touching it, feeding it, you can get a ticket for that. And each park has different values for what those tickets can be written for. So just know that before you decide to approach any wildlife.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Well, and feeding the wildlife has its own set of problems. So we were actually in Yosemite our first year on the road, and there were these ground dogs. They weren't there were ground squirrels of some kind. But they weren't like prairie dogs, they were actually ground squirrels. And so they would actually come up and like almost sit on your steps outside your camper waiting for you to feed them in this campground because so many people had fed them before. And so what those ground squirrels had learned was well, the people will throw me the food, it's fine. And so they would actually come and raid your campsite. And so as you were outside cooking on your grill, they would be like, and they'd be like right in your face, you know, close enough to actually like reach out and touch it. And so the problem with that, and I think so many people think, oh, you know, feeding one bird won't hurt. That unfortunately is the same mentality that makes it so that it does hurt long term. Um, you know, going back to bears and all of that stuff, you know, in California, that first year, Yosemite, we we were lectured on what not to leave in a car. Don't leave a cooler, don't leave this, don't leave that. And then in 2019, we went to, you know, Yellowstone and um we went to a ranger talk on bears because you know, are bears different from location to location? And the ranger said to us, I said, Well, you don't have bear boxes here. Do you not have to put your cooler out in a bear box here? And he said, Up, you must have been to Yosemite. Oh no, we don't have thug bears here, they haven't figured that out yet. So, yeah, like you know, the the bears in Yosemite might belong to a gang, we don't know yet, you know. But the reality is, is not all bears do the same thing in different parts of the world.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

I have a sad story that I was going to share now that we've gone into, we've kind of gotten ahead of what where I was planning on talking, but we should probably tell this story in terms of storing your food properly, picking up after yourself, and don't feed the animals. If you can't see me, you don't know that I just pounded my hand on my hand like I was lecturing children in a classroom. Um, in May last year, Yellowstone actually had to capture and uh put down an 11-year-old grizzly bear because it had become accustomed and conditioned to human food. This bear was 400 pounds, and she had developed a way to overturn the 800-pound bear-proof dumpsters so that she could access the human food and the garbage. And she had stopped searching for her own natural food to do that. And so the National Park Service just wants everybody to know that anything that smells like food is treated by food or treated like food by animals. So they will become aggressive to get a hold of it. You know, she doubled her her capacity for weight. She she was 400 pounds, she figured out how to upend an 800-pound bear-proof dumpster to get into it. And she did that for more than a month. They tracked her before they finally were like, okay, it's just not safe anymore. We have to do something about this. And so I was watching an interview actually with uh kind of like the head of Yellowstone, and he was saying that when Yellowstone first started, it used to be customary for visitors to feed, like it was encouraged to feed the bears out of the dumpsters and out of like their cars. And all I can think of is that I'm gonna I'm about to take us from a very somber moment to a very ridiculous moment, but all I can think of is the great outdoors, where John Candy takes all the kids in their station wagon to go look at the bears, and he starts trying to get the bears to come out, so he starts throwing them candy bars, and then all the bears crawl on the station wagon, and all the people around him are like, You dummy, the signs say don't feed the bears, and so then he's like, Okay, hi, hi, and then he puts the car in reverse and he tries to leave. But there's you know, obviously a bear on the car still trying to get more candy because you just fed the bear.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

So, you know, don't feed saying that, you know, the reality is is that social media and you know, movies like that do make it seem like it should be commonplace. So there's some things that if you do encounter a bear, you know, there are some things that you should be aware of. Number one, be aware of your surroundings. A mama cub and her cubs is going to be very different in 20. So let's just say this. Let me start with I just looked it up while you were talking. 73 deaths of bears were recorded just in Yellowstone alone last year in 2025. And it takes so long for them to get put back in the ecosystem. So whether they're hit by a motorist going too fast, or most of them that are taken out are destroyed because of a situation like this. Most of them don't end up at the you know local bear wolf and sanctuary because they can't take them all in. And so a lot of them do get destroyed. But that being said, you know, know some bear etiquette. So the year we were out in Yellowstone, there was a gentleman that was mauled by a bear. He was fishing, he was fly fishing in what should have been a very safe area. Um, and it was not because the bear had its food down by the water, and so the bear returned while the guy was fly fishing and the man did not make it. You know, bears are very territorial animals, so it's very important to know some bear etiquette. So, one of the things I taught my kids as we first hit the road was how to how to scare a bear away. Now, I'm not saying go toe-to-toe with a bear, but if you find yourself on a trail and you now come face to face with this animal, you need to get bigger. So you need to get close together, but far enough apart where you look like the bigger animal and make lots and lots and lots of noise. Don't run. That's a big one. But secondly, carry bear spray and know how to use it. Too many people will hold it up here, like at their face. It's really like a straight shot straight out in front of you, and you want to be downwind of it because it's very strong. Yeah, and I would caution against this. In 2022, when we did work at Yellowstone, I overheard this sweet lady telling her kids that she was gonna buy some bear spray. And she was asking her mom or her aunt how many she needed. And the one woman started talking, and she's like, I don't know. It's like DEET, you just start spraying it on the children. Do not spray bear spray on the children or yourself because it will cause massive burns on your body. Yes. So know how to use bear spray. It is not a repellent that you put on your clothing, that is not the purpose of it. It is a quick blast to get you past the bear and you onto safer shores than the bear. But it's not just bears. I mean, there's lots of animals out there.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

There are, and I've got some tips in here, but while we're talking about this really fast, on the tail end of what you were just saying, if you are going hiking, along with the tips that you just gave, don't go hiking alone if you don't have to. The more people, the better, make noise while you're hiking. Because, like you were saying, with those pants, with the swishy, swishy noise, the noise, they'll stay away from the noise. And then also watch for tracks and scat. That's a good way to tell if you're getting close to where they kind of live and you know their natural place of hunting for food and things like that. And don't wear headphones while you're hiking so that you can be aware of the things that are happening around you. That's a really good one. Another thing, if just on the hiking tip, but if you do hike with your dogs, if they allow dogs in the park that you're at, make sure that they are leashed, that they're vaccinated, and that you're cleaning up after your dog as you're hiking. Just that'll keep your dogs safe. Safe in case you do have an animal encounter, but also it will, if you do have an issue where you need to go or get out of the area, you are also able to get your dog and take your dog with you.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yes. Well, and that depends on the park. So that's something to keep in mind.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Yep. You gotta check the park for that. So obviously, there's there, like Jen is talking about, there are real safety reasons for both you and the animal for why you should not be interacting or getting too close to the wildlife. And like she mentioned, there are guidelines for how close you are even allowed to get. Each park is a little different and they have guidelines, but the general, I don't want to say rule, but a good rule of thumb until you know what each park is, is if it is wildlife like a duck. Or um, you know, I'm just using a duck. I'm using a duck as an example. 25 yards for non-aggressive animals in a national park. The National Park Service website suggests 25 yards, but they do recognize that some parks set 30 yards as the minimum. So they say check the website for the specific park that you are visiting before you go. For aggressive animals, and so we're talking bison, we're talking moose, we're talking elk, bear, wolves, enter your animal here. 100 yards is the minimum. So when you see those guys, don't pet the fluffy cows. Okay. Do not go near the wolves. Do not, they the coyotes do not need you near them. Like, just don't. 100 yards. If you do not know how close that is because you live in America, 100 yards. I wrote this down so that I would be able to say it because I do not know because I live in America. But 100 yards is 300 feet. Now, the other thing is that I'm really bad with numbers. So I have to go, okay, my dad is six foot six, so three hundred feet, six foot six, and that's how I start making sense of how far I'm not supposed to go.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

I mean, if we're doing this in RV mileage, oh, how long is your rig? Your rig is 43 feet.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yes, yep, 43 feet.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

So, so that's you know, six of your RVs minimum. No, probably seven.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

That's a really good one. I'm gonna start using my RV. I like that. That's much easier than to like imagine my dad laying down multiple times.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

But now think about that. But if you're walking through, let's just say Yellowstone, because a lot of people are gonna head there this summer, not knowing half of it, you know, and like the things that are endangered there are not necessarily endangered in other places, and vice versa. So the bison that are there are free range, they could be near the geysers. You just have to be mindful of where they are. If they're walking on the path, guess what? You should not be, you know, because those paths are, you know, they have right of way. I mean, essentially they get to go first.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yes. And and I think it's important to note also, along with what you were saying about like you don't let the the animals are not getting let out at a certain time. This isn't a zoo. There are no fences, there are no schedules, but that also means that to your point, every path, every road is a uh pathway of an animal's migration pattern.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

So and sometimes those animals will take the road. Yes, and so you just have to wait for them.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yep. So when you're driving, it's okay to do that. Yes. When you're driving, you need to adhere to the speed limits that are posted. You need to be paying attention to the cars around you because another car in front of you may have had to stop suddenly because an animal has darted out in front of them. You need to be watching for the animal so that you can stop. One of the things that we do whenever we're just in plain traffic is if something happens and you know we're having to stop suddenly, we will put on our hazards to alert people. Hey, we're stopping very, very quickly. So maybe do that whenever you're visiting a national park and an animal runs out. That's a good rule of thumb to let people know, hey, we have to stop suddenly. This is not just me stopping because I see an animal, you know, that I want to take a picture of.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

So I mean, now is a really good time to talk about a bear jam. Then have you ever been in a bear jam? You've never been in a bear jam. Or a bison jam. So let's talk about a bison jam because those are those really happen in Yellowstone and a lot of the parts where you're going to find bison. But come late August, early September, you're now in mating season. And so people will come into these and there will be like the males going at each other, trying to impress the girls by sticking out their tongues as far as they can stick it out. And you know, I guess it does something for the girls. I don't know, but that's what they fight over. They stick their tongues out. And so if you're near a bison jam, you might see a lot of snorting, grunting, pushing. So putting your horn on in that situation with a bison that's in his mating ritual is not your best choice because he can flip your car, yes, given the opportunity to do so. But there's so many people that will like open up the head thing, and that 100-foot rule is gone out the window at the moment that they stick their head out to take pictures. Don't put your windows down if you find yourself in that situation. Be patient, enjoy the enjoy the show. Like that is what it is. You know, so a lot of people that go through parks don't realize how long it can take you to get through a national park with a bison jam or a bear jam or a whatever it is jam. The reality is people pull over and you don't know what they're pulling over for. So sometimes those jams, by the time you find the jam, there's no moose to be seen. It left three hours ago and you're just stuck in traffic. It, you know, it just is. Just enjoy that moment.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

But to that point, if there is an animal in the road or if there's something happening off the side of the road that you do want to stop and enjoy, use these stop-ins. Don't just stop in the middle of the road if you don't have to stop in the middle of the road, so that traffic can continue to move without because you don't want people to get stuck there in a way that limits the movement of the animals because they will get panicked if they don't see a way out. So those stop-ins that are created by the National Park Service or the State Park Service, those are there for a reason. They they are there to keep traffic moving, to keep the visitors safe, to keep the animals safe. So use those instead of just stopping in the middle of the road. You were talking about the bison, and I knew that bison were big. Like I knew bison were big. Those are big, they're big. But I, when I was reading about them, I had to write it down because I was so impressed. And I literally titled these facts, Don't Pet the Fluffy Cows, because I just kept seeing all of these videos, and I just kept remembering that phrase over and over again. Because you would see these videos online of people where the bison were just standing there and they would look so unfrightening. They would look so tame, they would look so calm, they would just be just quietly like not timid, but just stately. They looked stately. I don't know. And maybe it's because we've seen so many pieces of art and museums of just bison standing out in the grassy plains that we're all like, that's what they do. They just stand there. But people just walk up expecting them to just continue standing there. And I saw a video of a lot of people getting thrown very, very far by bison. So a male bison can weigh up to 2,000 pounds and can run up to 40 miles per hour. That is how fast you go down most city streets. Okay. That is so fast. So in addition to that, they can also jump high enough to clear a five-foot fence. I'm not messing with a bison, okay? You should not mess with a bison. They bluff charge. So you mentioned a few of their signs. I want to give a few of these signs. I've got a few more. Just knowing that they can move 40 miles per hour, keep that 100-yard distance. But just in case you unintentionally happen upon them, um, I did hear an interview with one park ranger that said, if you notice them noticing you in any way, get out. Like so on that note, you should see you.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

You should probably know in 2022 that we used to go have dinner with the bison. And I know that sounds crazy, but we would go and we would take our sack lunch and we would go to one of those turnout spots and we would just sit there. And we would wait for the herd to come up around us, and then we would just sit quietly in the car. We did not exit the vehicle, they would graze on the grass around that. But I called it having dinner with the mice bison because they didn't care that you were there. You just sat in the car, and it was the most delightful. It was an amazing experience, but we didn't ever like say, Oh, I'm gonna get out and take pictures. Like that was never our intention. It was literally like experiencing them in their habitat with the car off, and we just sat there and kind of enjoyed that hour or so that we would go have dinner with the bison. And I think there's safe ways to experience this, yes, but I think you have to be mindful of it and know what you're getting out there and into. Like, don't approach a coyote, like that's just silly. No, no, it looks like a dog, it's not a dog, you know. Florida is a great example too. Sand cranes are in full effect right now, and they have been for the last couple weeks. But you know, the reality is those babies are born and those parents are protective. And so I'll never forget one year. We've traveled for years, so I mean, like, we try to instill safety wherever we go, but it doesn't stop somebody from like watching their kid out the back window and you're looking off to the engine, you're like, he's doing a crane pose at the sand crane, and you're bolting out the door, going, This is not a good choice in my life. So, like, teach your kids not to approach the lot wildlife, teach your kids not to do that. Teach your wife, your husband, your I don't care who they are, you know, take that next step and look up the importance of those things that you're interacting with. You know, there are people that feel feed the wildlife and will adamantly do so. One more Yellowstone story. So there was this one lady that came toward the end of the season and she scooped up all of the uh animal crackers left on our shelves. And I think we had 12 boxes left at that point. And she came up to the counter and she was super nice. And I'm like, Are you traveling with a Girl Scout troop? Thinking for sure that she's just buying something for everybody. She goes, No, I'm gonna go home and sort them tonight. I was like, What do you mean? She goes, Well, I know there's bison ones in here, so I'm gonna sort the bison ones out and I'm gonna go feed those to the bison. And then the mountain lion ones, I don't know how I'm gonna find a mountain lion. And I just looked at her, I said, ma'am, I said, I would love to sell you$7 box cookies because these are the one of the most expensive things in the store because they're Yellowstone animals. I said, but I will not sell a single box to you. I said, I can get fired tomorrow if that's the case, because I know you want to go feed those animals in the park. And that is just not what those are for. Those are edible for people, they're your snacks for the car, not for the animals. And she was just like, really? And so I think that, you know, culturally, we actually don't realize what is safe and what is not safe. And so be mindful of all the animals, not just, you know, the big fluffy ones. Um, you know, and most animals aren't gonna hurt you. Oh, I I think alligators get the biggest, baddest rap, you know, typically they're not gonna chase you down unless someone's been feeding them chickens off their back porch. Right. But they're not typically aggressive animals that are gonna chase you down in Florida unless they've been fed. And so that comes with the price of pretty much all animals. You know, animals become almost weirdos when you start feeding them, and then they come back for more. And so, you know, wildlife encounters are great, they're they're fun, they can be amazing. Bird watching, I mean, can you think of all the amazing wildlife encounters you can have on the road? But at the same time, there's some safety there that you need to factor in every time you go do something like that.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Right. So, one of the things that I wanted to touch on is that um I think whenever we think about wildlife, we tend to only think about how we interact with the animals. But really, wildlife doesn't just include the animals, it also includes just the natural land and the water features. Those can be dangerous the way that we interact with just the land and the water as well. So, you know, like a Zion had a rock fall last year that they had to close out a road in the park. And that wasn't, you know, it didn't take very long for them to open it back up, but that was something that happened. Nobody was injured in it. But, you know, there you just have to be aware of things that can happen because you are in the middle of the wilderness. So I wanted to touch on thermal features a little bit and wildland fires just so that we can kind of give some tips for those. And I am going to try and go through some of these fast because I know that we are getting close on time. But thermal features include like geysers, steam vents, hot springs, mud pots, and they look so enticing and they look so inviting, but many of them are above boiling point. The waters that are inside are above boiling point, and many of those waters are acidic, some of them as acidic as battery acid. So when you are in areas that have boardwalks that you're supposed to be staying on or paths that you're supposed to be staying on, it is very important to stay on those paths. Do not touch the water more in Yellowstone. I know we keep talking about Yellowstone, but in Yellowstone, 22 people have lost their lives to injuries sustained by hydrothermal features. That's more than any injuries sustained by bears or bisons combined.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

So in 2022, there was a spot where someone's shoe was discovered and the rest of him was melted. Yeah. So yeah, we were we were in the park at that. We were in like we lived uh just outside of Yellowstone, but that whole section was set shut down for several weeks because someone just decided to try and take a dip in it. And that is not advised under any circumstances. In fact, when you're visiting hot springs, make sure they're not too hot because that that can be a very dangerous situation. But you know, the blue, the pretty blue rings, the reason they're blue is because they're about 212 degrees or higher. And so the brown is the lightest color, and that's the the least height hot color on most of those. So it's it's kind of fascinating, but also kind of scary. So you need to know what you're doing if you're anywhere near that. And you know, a lot of people try to swim in like the Yellowstone River. There actually used to be a spot called Firehole Canyon that used to be open to people to go swim in. Um, it was in 2019 when we went there, but it was shut down and because there were thermal bubbles coming out of the bottom of it, and people would get scalded and burnt, and they didn't know why. And so they that is no longer an option anymore. So, you know, there are hot places, hot springs across the country. If you're interested in that, go pay the fee to go to a paid hot spring. Um, but not Yellowstone.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yeah. Not the steam alone can be like just for old faithful, that steam, it's been measured to be above 350 degrees. So if the steam is above 350 degrees, you can only imagine what the water can get up to. The areas around it, the ground around it, the reason why you are encouraged not to, well, you are not allowed to walk on that ground is because some of that crust around those thermal features can be as thin as a half an inch or less thick. In uh July of last year, a 17-year-old boy, his foot broke through the crust of the Lone Star Geyser, and he had burns to his foot and his ankle and had to be rushed to the hospital for that because the crust was just very, very thin and he had stepped off of the boardwalk. So it's very important to stay on the boardwalk, stay in the paths where they are marked.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Uh, bison actually lost its life last year in Yellowstone. And that one, you know, people wanted to help it, but nobody could get to it. And so, you know, it it's it's definitely something to be mindful of.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

But it's not just that. I mean, it's it could be something as simple as swimming in a you know, a lake where you know there's no alligator activity in Florida. It could be something as simple as, you know, kayaking and getting your boat hit by an alligator gar, yeah, which you know is a fish. I mean, like, yeah, you know, so I mean, there's simple stuff that you're not like that I think that we think, oh, it's no big deal.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Right. But we've not mastered all of these things. They're right. And I I do not think that they are masterable. So while you know, the more you know for sure. So our national parks are massive. I've only got numbers for four, but I'm gonna touch on these really fast just to give you an idea. So Yosemite is over 748,000 acres. Yellowstone is 2.2 million acres. The Redwood Forest National Park and State Parks has over 131, it's just shy of 132,000 acres. And Zion is 148.7,000 acres. So that's just four of them. And if you look for a list, the national park list is huge. Okay, so there's a lot of land, and if you look at how much of it um we can actually go traversing through when we visit, it is a very, very, very small percentage. So this land, there's a lot of brush, there's a lot of trees, and this is untouched land. So if a fire begins, that fire can build up fast. So a few things to know if you are out hiking or you've gone out kind of on your own, just some tips for you. First of all, and this is really for anybody who goes out hiking. We've already talked about like hike in groups, if you can. But even if you're hiking in a group, and especially if you are hiking alone, make sure that you give your itinerary for your hiking trip to someone who is not going on your trip and the time that you're estimated to return. That way, if you don't come back, they'll know to send out help and to make sure that everything's going okay. A lot of times in these parks, you do not have good cell service. So it's really important that someone knows where you're going to be so that, you know, you might not be able to call for help, but someone may be able to send some help. When you get there, register at the trailhead, check in with the local ranger station. Those are just other ways to let people know that you're there so that if a fire does begin, um, they know how many people are out in the trails and they can help keep track of have we accounted of everybody who's on the lands. Know the smoke. So if you see white smoke, white smoke is finer. It means that it's a faster burning fuel. So it's usually going to be like a grass or something that's going to burn fast, but burn for a shorter duration. Dark smoke is like thick brush or timber. These are longer lasting fires. And these types of fires carry embers further. So these are the types of fires that jump highways, jump rivers, and continue to burn and really grow out of control very, very quickly. The larger the column of smoke, the larger the fire. But also the way that the column of smoke is bending will tell you the way that the fire is burning, burning. So if the column of smoke is bending towards you, that means the fire is coming your direction. So that's really useful if you're trying to figure out what way to go to make sure that you're not in the line of the moving fire.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

So you know what, Annal, you haven't talked about it all.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

What?

SPEAKER_00 43:19

The kind that slithers.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

It's because I don't like snakes, Jen. I don't want to talk about them, and I just assume that everybody would leave them alone like me.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yeah, well, see, a lot of people don't. And you know, there's different kinds of snakes in the wild. And so it's important to know that there are websites and Facebook groups that will help you identify snakes if you can take pictures. Uh-huh. But, you know, you also should know which ones are venomous and which ones are not. And not every snake is a bad snake. In fact, I don't believe there's any bad snakes. So I think you and I might differ on that opinion.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

But I think we do.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

But the the reality is, is those snakes have a job, and that's to clean up after themselves. themselves, you know, so they they control the rodent population in a lot of places. So a lot of times you'll see snakes. One thing a lot of people don't realize, and we stayed, we lived in Southern California for a lot of years before we hit the road. And so we lived in the part of the country that had the green Mojave, which is a pit viper, it is a rattlesnake, and it often won't even rattle before it strikes. But in Joshua Tree, they're very common. But what you need to know about a snake like that is it typically will only strike half the length of its body. So if it's a six-foot snake, it only has maybe a three-foot reach. And so one of the things that if you hear a rattle on the trail, stop and identify where it's coming from. Don't, and I'm speaking to myself here, don't travel in sandals, don't hike in sandals and shorts if you can. Wear pants on the trail. It's very important, especially in terms of snake bite. But if you're ever bit by a snake on the tr on a trail, number one, if you can get a picture of it, because then you can identify if you are okay or not. But snakes as a whole are not innately aggressive. They're much like a lot of animals, they're aggressive when threatened. I just did a big thing on blue bonnets here in Texas for a blog, and I had to be reminded once again that there could be snakes underneath the blue bonnets. So, like even something as simple as going to look at flowers could bring you face to face with local wildlife. So be mindful of that and know enough about snakes to know that they're not going to all hurt you and you don't need to hurt them. But at the same time, be able to identify vipers. Vipers are going to have typically a triangular head, and that potentially means that they're poisonous. But unless you have an actual ID on them in a photo of each one, you're not going to know for sure. So, you know, be mindful of all of that too. Another thing is local wildlife could be things like fire ants. I know they're bugs, but you know, knowing what not to step on. It's not, you know, just a it's not just an anthill in those cases. So you know, in those treatments, you know, having you know a hefty supply of antihistamines on board so that you know, if you do, you have Benadryl that you can take pretty quickly if you have some kind of allergic reaction to those animals. So just some and go to an ER. Like if you if you get if you get bit or anything on a trail, don't take our advice. Get to the ER.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Don't yes, you know, and I I'm going to put the link for the first aid kit that we've got um and that we've we've talked about in the past. I'm gonna put that in the show notes. But yeah, I mean the I think the best tips we can give are call 911 if you see a fire or evidence of a fire, go to the ER if you get injured, seek medical guidance for any injury that you get, if you come into physical contact with any wildlife, even though it may be accidental or non-intentional, tell a ranger if you see a baby animal and that animal appears to be lost or um separated from its mother, do not pick up the animal, do not take the animal to a ranger station. The rangers will not be able to reattach that animal with its mother. That animal has a better chance of surviving if it is left where it is so that the mother can come back and find it. The second that you touch that animal, it has a greater chance of not surviving. So leave the animals where they are. I know that your hearts are all for the baby animals. You want to see them safe and you want to see them taken care of. But the best way you can do that is to leave them where they are and not touch them. So tell a ranger if you come into physical contact with wildlife, if you see sick or dead wildlife, or if any wildlife are acting strangely, or if they voluntarily approach you, make sure that you tell a park ranger. If you see people that are not following the park guidelines, gently and encouragingly remind them of the best way to be in the parks. And if they just cannot follow the park guidelines, don't be afraid to reach out to a ranger. You want to keep people safe. You want to keep the park safe, and you don't want a few bad apples to run it for everybody. So contact a ranger if necessary. Those are my kind of, you know, if that encouraging them to be their best selves doesn't work, call for help.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Well, and I mean teaching people is half the battle in terms of that, of what they don't know.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

You know, so I mean, take the time to explain to your fellow campers, you know, especially if you see them out there, like, you know, when we're in Thousand Trails Orlando, you've heard us talk about the tortoises that get injured. Like something as simple as running over a tortoise or picking up a tortoise to get it on the other side of the road. Just sit there and wait for it. And then teach the kids that you do know or the adults that you meet around a campfire, whenever you have the opportunity, how important it is to let wildlife be wild. We can enjoy the nature that's out there and make smart decisions without actually hurting any of those animals. And so when we touch an animal in the wild, it literally can be its death sentence. And so it's very important that we understand that. And the fact that we're putting ourselves in danger because there's a lot of times we don't know what kind of bacteria the animal has, what it's come in contact with. And so let the wildlife be wild. I know it's really enticing to go pet the fluffy cows, especially when they have babies in Yellowstone. Please do not do that under any circumstances. Most people that go to places like that come with big binoculars and cameras with very long lenses to get the pictures they get of the up-close and personal encounters. Most people don't get the up-close and personal encounters that you see. And if they do, chances are they're featured on Tourons of Yellowstone.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Yes. Well, if you have any amazing stories of faraway captures of beautiful wildlife that you want to share with us, or just any tips that you want to give us for safely enjoying the outdoors, you can do so in our Facebook group. Be sure to like and subscribe and share this with your friends. And we're gearing up for our Campfire Confessions episode. So we're still taking submissions. If you have any stories that you want us to share, you can send those in to um, I think we decided to just go ahead and send them to Learn to RV right at gcom. We thought we'd make it easy. LearnToRV at gmail.com. And so we are taking those. You can get a Campfire Confession sticker if you get red on the air.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

So that could be your best black tank story. That could be anything you maybe didn't want anybody to know about. That could be the branch you hit coming into the campground, or maybe the roof that was like scraping on the top of your like minivan as you were driving through Las Vegas in a parking garage. That's not oddly specific, but you know, all those types of stories.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

I mean, you know, things happen. Tell us about it. We'd love to share those stories, and you can get a sticker. LearnToRV at gmail.com. We will talk to you guys around the campfire next week. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

See you soon.