Slow Travel, New Horizons: Suzy May Teaches You to Worldschool Without Breaking the Bank

SPEAKER_01 0:04

So picture this. You know, you're a family that's been traveling for a couple years on the road and you're looking for something different. Uh, maybe you're looking for a way to do that internationally. Um, you know how to dump your tanks, you know how to boondock at Walmart, but what you don't know is how to go overseas. And so this is the episode that's going to talk about that today. We're joined by Susie May, and she is wandering world school. And um, she actually interviewed Tasha a few weeks ago. And so Tasha found this gem for us, and I'm so excited to have you a part of Learn to R V the podcast. Welcome, Susie.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Thank you for letting me be here. I'm so excited. Yes, we had a great conversation all around road schooling, world schooling through the in the R V, especially with teens and young adults, which I think is a phase of parenting that a lot of parents are like, well, is it over? Are my kids gone? I can't travel with them anymore. So I really appreciated Tasha bringing on the perspective that she shared with my audience. So I'm happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Of course. So, you know, the biggest question, and we're gonna dive into all sorts of this, but you know, is how to fund world schooling. You know, we hear of it all the time on road schooling too. You know, you know, how do I make money on the road is one of the top key questions out there. And I think that people think it's cheaper to live full-time on the road. And my I my argument is often, well, not if you're traveling, but I think so many families go into what we call vacation mode that that's a key problem for us. And I mean, I think we all fall prey to it. And I suspect that it would be exceptionally true if you're trying to do Europe in seven days. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Short trips, fast travel can be very expensive because you're packing full of the itinerary, you're often eating out every meal, you're often staying in a short stay accommodation. And as a family, hotels are sometimes a stretch because you need two plus rooms. So then you're getting maybe an Airbnb, and we all know that can add up. And then also, you know, some people have the luxury of having a flexible school schedule if they are homeschooling, road schooling, world schooling, not on a traditional school schedule. Lots of families travel predominantly in the summer, though, because of because possibly of that traditional school schedule. So now they're also competing with all the other people traveling during the summer months, the busy holiday months. So absolutely short trips can get expensive, which is one reason I love to talk about slow and long-term travel as a way to make it more financially advantageous for a lot of families, more financially accessible, I should say, to more and more families. And also, I think a big key part of it, and I'm sure you've experienced this and have talked about it before, is somewhat the travel burnout that can bubble up as the day-to-day gets faster and faster, or a new place every so often. And avoiding travel burnout is I think is the key for longer term, more sustainable travel. So, really, the more we slow down, the more we can tackle both the finance piece, but also the longevity piece. Wanting to travel longer or full time is a just a very different mindset than I have a two-week vacation, I'm gonna maximize it. Because I've been there too. Yeah. Two weeks, you fill you fill your itinerary in, you come home exhausted, it's fine because you get to recuperate it. But full-time or slow travel is just a whole different ballgame.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Well, and I don't want people that are maybe listening to tune out if they don't travel with kids. I think that that's something that we need to address right up front. I think that we can talk about, you know, the couple in the airstream that wants to go overseas. I think a lot of what we're gonna talk about today is gonna be pertinent for any type of traveler in terms of long-term sustainable travel. Absolutely. You know, I it's one of our first years on the road. So we've been on the road for since 2013. We met this gentleman and he said, Well, you know, my parents travel on a cruise ship all year long. I was like, wait, what? All year long? And he was like, No, they go from cruise ship to cruise ship. That's something in America that most people don't even consider. Is it's often cheaper than going to like a retirement home. And so it's food, it's friends, it's activities. And so like all of those things add up, and you just don't realize what you don't know until you find it. So before we hop into that, Tasha, we've got the scavenger hunt coming up. I'm hoping that this airs during this, but you know, if you haven't yet signed up for the scavenger hunt, how do we do that?

SPEAKER_02 4:30

You need to go to rv.io, but it's not rv, it's ar. They are our biggest sponsor this year, and they are our hosting platform for the whole great, big, huge, wonderful thing. If they want more information, they can go to learntorv.com and click on the tab that's all about our great American RV scavenger hunt, and that gives them all of the information about the scavenger hunt, about the rules, and it's great. Starts July 1st. Every week is a different theme with different hunts, different things that you can look for. But what's great is that your family, if you miss the first week, you can join in at the second week and the points reset. And then all of the points every week accumulate, and the final week, all of the points get pulled together for our grand prize winners. So this is very exciting. Lots of fun. We had a blast last year when we played for prizes. We walked away with beef jerky that did not last long uh because it was very tasty. And you said that she's coming back this year, and I'm very sad that I cannot win her beef jerky again. But I know we've got lots of amazing prizes this year. So yeah, go to ar to get your tag and get your family registered for your team. Go to learn to rv.com to learn more about the scavenger hunt and come play.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

It's gonna be fun. Yep. And don't forget to join the Facebook group. That's where the fun actually doesn't stop. The points don't count there, but that's where we're gonna have the most fun. So there's the community aspect of it too. This is our second year doing it. It's kind of a crazy adventure. But some people would say we're world schooling is kind of a crazy adventure. Tasha, I know you're super excited about this because you were actually on Suzy May's podcast. What do you think is the best part about having her on the podcast today? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Well, okay, so when I met Suzy and she said, Hey, I've world school, I was like, wait a minute, you do what? Because it just felt like such a kismet opportunity the way that we met. We met at Codfest. Um, and I did not think that I was going to be meeting anybody um that was even remotely doing anything that looked like how we were living our lives. So it was really wonderful to have that opportunity. But then also what I love about this is that Susie has so many great ideas about how to expand outside of the country and how to make that a reality for people who have maybe been on the road here, maybe have gotten their chops in the US. You know, they've like, they've really broken in the US and now they're ready to explore outside of the United States. Susie has that, like, she's got that down. And so I think she has a lot of really great wisdom that she can share with our listeners. And she's got such a great energy. She's she's just wonderful. I love Susie. So yeah, I'm just really excited to hear everything that she is gonna tell us today. It's I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

So let's start with the mindset shift because as our full-time RVers, I think there's got to be a whole mindset shift. You know, it's the paring down, it's the doing all the things. But if you're more adventurous and you're looking for something different, I think that road schooling, you know, lends itself to like lifelong learning. But taking it to the I I call, you know, I think of it like leveling up. And so you're just leveling up into different states, different countries. But do you need like, you know, to be better organized? Where, where would you start with that?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Absolutely. And I do want to step back and Atasha, it was so wonderful to meet you. I'm so glad we're gonna have this conversation. And you brought up some amazing points that either if you're based in the US or you're purposely choosing to RV in the US, you have so much to work with. There is endless opportunities, right? And then you also get some of the ease of like, I mean, especially if you are already from the US, right? You don't have to deal with as much about borders or visas, language barriers. I mean, there's just eliminate some of those other potential travel hassles, to be honest, those travel barriers, and allows you to really find whatever you want. And there's every season, if you want to have perpetual spring, you're covered. And or if you really want to get into the snow or the beach or the sand. So I absolutely see why the US is an RV paradise and why so many people are so busy RVing in the US that maybe they haven't considered yet venturing outside the US borders for lots of reasons, right? But if someone wanted to maybe get started with taking, you know, road schooling, taking their RV adventures global, I think it all depends on a little bit about what they're looking for. If someone wanted to recreate RV life in a different country, that might be different than I'm taking a break from RV life, because I think that there can be benefits to mixing it up a little bit. Maybe you've been RVing for a while and you say, okay, let's actually try with house sitting, maybe a home exchange if someone still has a home or apartment they can exchange, or they want to do those one-month rentals somewhere, things like that. They want to take advantage of possibly, especially if they have kids, there's world schooling opportunities, hubs and cohorts and education centers that provide housing, and you get to be there with other families. And so you would choose to stay in that location instead of have the RV with you. Or there's the barrier of, okay, so I want to go somewhere else, but I'm not really sure of the driving laws or how to even get an RV over there. I certainly I've spoken to a German family that has shipped their RV from Europe to the US twice. They're currently in the US for the second time. They've been there since last September, uh, on and off a little bit in into Mexico in the winter, but they have done that. So I'm I'm pretty sure you could ship your RV to Europe. Now the streets are gonna be smaller. You know, there might be other things to consider besides.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

So we should probably not our 42-foot fifth wheel is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

You might be limited.

unknown 10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

The RVs I see, and I see many of them here in Spain. I'm based out of Sevilla, Spain right now. And if you go to the coast, there are RVs everywhere, there are parking lots everywhere, very RV friendly in the south of Portugal, south of Spain. They are smaller. But I mean, I still think that they're quite well stocked. We chatted, we spent a week with a family, a German-Maltese family in Portugal that were going on eight months living out of the RV, predominantly in Europe. And we got a tour of their RV. And, you know, each kid had their own little section. Parents were in the front, they had this section in the middle. It seemed like it had everything you needed. However, you know, having a little bit more space might offer some more comforts. And again, I totally get why if you are full-time living, you want to take advantage of some of that. So there might be trade-offs. Either you're renting one or you're getting a smaller one. You know, those type of things are worth considering. But so I think that's the first question is do we want to continue the RV life outside the US borders or are we wanting to take a bit of a vacation from the RV world? And then we can explore other types of travel. And often someone might, you know, park their RV and you guys probably have great resources on where to park it if you're not in it for a while. I'm sure there's plenty of places to leave it safely, and then you can always come back to it and just take your suitcase and just have a different style of travel.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

So that's my recommendation on where to start. Okay. What do you think is uh the culture checklist that needs to creep in in that situation? Like because each place is different. So we've we've traveled for 13 years. We hit the road in 2013 with our family. Our that's changed and evolved over time. So we're down to three out of seven of our kids still traveling with us. But our oldest is 19 and then 16 and then 14. So it's definitely changed, especially in the last couple of years with all teenagers. Um, so there's a lot less we have to think about. Everybody's pretty self-managing. But I think that one of our per what we own a business in the US. So that's one of our biggest limiting factors for us. And I think that the people that work remotely may have similar problems. How long is the right amount of time? And I think that's gonna vary for each family, right? Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

And this is where, depending on the style of travel you've decided on, your next step would be looking at maybe what countries, what visas, or things you would be having to look into based on that country. If someone wants to continue the RV life, again, I am a little partial to Europe and Spain, having been based out of here off and on for the last three years, seeing a lot of that firsthand. I think there's a great culture around RV life in Europe and the ease and the culture and within like the drive you're doing right today, Tasha, you could be in a whole different country. Um and of course, the borders in Europe have are a little different since it is the European Union. The Schengen is the main rule that US passport holders need to be aware of, is that there are quite a few countries that fall within the Schengen, and a US passport holder can have up to 90 days in a rolling 180 days in that in the Schengen zone. So often that means 90 days that you would not have to worry about basically a visa or anything like that. And as far as working on the road, I mean you are coming in on a tourist visa. There actually are countries that offer digital nomad visas, and often if you work remotely or have your own business, you would be eligible for those. Those take a little longer to take care of, and it usually means you want to stay just in that one country longer, like up to three years in Spain, which honestly, Spain is, I would love to like 100% RV this whole country. There's so much to see and do in just Spain. So maybe you want to really prioritize a language like Spanish. And so you're like, let's stay in Spain, right? And let's do the, let's do three years, let's get the digital nomad visa. But if you didn't want to go through all that extra hassle of an additional visa, you would just want to be cognizant of the Schengen shuffle. And most people like the general recommendation is that I mean, it's it's 2026. People are checking their email, they're doing stuff here and there. And so when you're coming in on a tourist visa, you are a tourist. You're you're there to see the country, right? You're there to see space. On the side, sure, you're checking your email, you're doing a little bit of work, right? But there's not really like a problem. And I it's very much like fine to be doing stuff on a tourist visa. Now, again, if you want to stay longer and you have the means to prove digital nomad, then you're totally going to be in the clear visa-wise. And you can stay longer, not have to worry about jumping out of the Schengen after 90 days. Some people might go to the UK for 90 days to get out of the Schengen and then come back in, maybe just park their RV for a while. You know, so there's or there's different ways to approach it. But that would be the second thing to think about, is like visas and what countries.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Well, and that's interesting because my Canadian friends, like we've learned so much over the years about Canada and the rules for the US and stuff like that. And it took me years to understand that it was actually US rules that kept Canadians here for the length of time that they could be in the United States. And if they go to Mexico for 30 days, they can come back to the States in most cases. And so it was just an interesting dynamic to learn. So, I mean, all of that stuff is super helpful in terms of what that looks like. You know, if you don't have kids yet or you never will, I I want to say something here too, because the the travel philosophy that we're talking about today is applying to everyone's life, not just if you're road schooling. And so if you're a digital nomad that, you know, is in your 50s and you're still doing this, this totally applies to you. You could go spend some time in, you know, Spain or Italy. I know my husband really wants to go to Italy because that's where his family's from originally. But, you know, it would be really cool. I think that slow travel philosophy that you're describing is exactly what so many digital nomads are almost craving in terms of this. Tasha, you're coming to a point where um in your lifestyle, you know, you might be an empty nester before you're not. Is this something that, you know, you would consider without the kids? Heck yes, I would.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Um honestly, I would have, I would have considered it with the kids, you know. It's just that we really wanted an opportunity to show them the country here and hit the places that they hadn't seen yet before we started expanding out. But yeah, we I I would go, I would go, I would go everywhere. I have wander less like like so bad. Name a country, I want to go to it. So yeah, it's it's there. Yeah. And it's something that I have looked into. And it's, you know, I have like uh several uh groups that like I follow online that are like even like help me leave the country. Like help me. How do I do it? I don't know. Teach me how. Like, what do I need to be able to go on a long trip and still be able to work and still be able to afford it and know the rules and not get in trouble? And I don't, you know, that's one of the things is that if I do it, I don't necessarily want to go for the seven-day trip where I am exhausted. I want to go and I want to take my time and I want to learn and see and get enveloped in the culture and educate myself and my family, whoever is along for the ride, whoever decides to come along for the ride. Like I want to take that in. I want us all to get that opportunity. And so I know that there's a lot that comes along with that in terms of visas and laws and just making sure that on both sides of the, you know, gate, we're following all the rules.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

So it's that's actually my next question for Susie, believe it or not. It's what's the biggest practical obstacle that families run into first? Is it money? Is it schooling? Like is it compliance, or is it just fear of the unknown? Or is it all the above? Because it could be all the above.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Absolutely, absolutely. I think definitely could be a little bit of all that for every family. I think with families in particular, the socialization piece can really come into play. You want to take this time off because you want to spend more time with your family. Maybe you were working the traditional nine to five and you dreamt of quitting it all, selling the house, and hitting the road. And now you're in this tight space with each other 24-7, and you realize your kids have their own interests and you have your own interests. And this is where we found when we were at campsites in the US, like camp magic comes into play where the kids just play together. And this is where traveling when you know other kids are going to be traveling actually can be helpful. And so I say as a family traveling outside the US, they might seek out certain like communities, tra traveling families, or enroll in short-term language programs or schools or summer camps, just something to allow for a little bit of that general socialization, friends for the kids, other adults to talk to. And again, if you share the same language with the country you're traveling in, that might be easier to make friends as you go. But once there is a potential language barrier, that can feel sometimes a little isolating. Kids on the playground can often make friends, kick a ball around. It's great. That's why kids were just doing yesterday. Granted, they they speak Spanish now, but they were they played for two hours with kids at the playground. It was awesome. Parents, on the other hand, it's different to socialize. And so that's where leaning leaning into the world schooling community, the there's so many organizers and creators and communities and Facebook groups and all these amazing things that you can lean into on socialization. And for many of the families I've chatted with, is that the socialization piece helps them sustain the lifestyle longer.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

So, you know, uh road schooling resources as a group that I have. And so, like, that's not associated to any one group. Anybody can join that group. It's 100% free because I also think that this lifestyle should have free access to other people in it because you want to spend the money on the things you're doing, not on the community as much sometimes. Absolutely. But I think you have to be intentional with those travels. So, like, there has to be dates on the calendar that you say, okay, I'm doing this rally for my kids because that's necessary. I don't think you can just plan to travel Europe and not have the kids get miserable. Not if you're not doing anything like that. That and I think that's why we probably 13 years later have still not taken that jump.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Well, and thank you for paving the way with so many of these resources and like the the Facebook groups of role schooling, you've put in all this work over the years and the community has grown. Not just because, of course, pandemic and all these other people like saw like remote work has certainly all catapulted it over the last like six plus years. But I would say that because people see that other people are doing this, it gives them that mindset of wait, wait, this is possible. You know, and then because they can learn from resources like your podcast, it like just makes it more attainable, more, more accessible. So uh you've paved the way so that more families can join, which really benefits all of us because then when I'm traveling or when other families are RVing, they have ultimately a better experience when they have that camp magic and the kids are playing and they're, you know, making s'mores with someone they met five minutes ago, but before you know it, they're like best friends and building a stick castle and all those things just make your parent heart so happy, you know. And I think even solo or with a couple, like sometimes you just want to have conversations. It's not only with this one person or that you're with. And so I think socialization is a big part of it. And then of course it comes into finances, is where people might consider things like renting their house out while they travel so that they can at least not have to double up on expenses. That's a big one I like to talk about when it comes to slow and long term travel. And I I should caveat, I like to say slow and long term travel because I think if people are in an RV, sometimes they feel like they're fast travelers because they might move, especially in Europe, right? Maybe you're in a location. For a couple of nights and then you move 45 minutes away and then you're there for a night or two. So they feel like they're fast traveling, but it feels very different when you have your RV and all your stuff with you compared to I'm out of a suitcase and now I have to pack everything up. In that case, I do recommend really slowing down, picking a home base for one month. We even will have a home base for one month and then take weekend trips where we might stay somewhere else for one night so we can explore more, but not have to bring all the things with us and just bring like a backpack for one night is like my favorite way to explore a little further from wherever I've I've had as my home base without having to like uproot everything, you know. So that's why I say slow and long term, because I think some people are gonna approach it differently. Also, slow travel, you know, whatever your vision of like fast travel is is probably different than someone else's, and slow travel is away. But it's more just like that mindset piece around I'm gonna slow down a little bit, like just spend a day going to get coffee, spending at the playground, doing like the the normal stuff. Normal life stuff, yeah. Yeah, the normal life stuff. And and you guys know how important it is to plan in days for like, I'm just gonna chill and maybe watch a show and do laundry, and that's today's agenda because you need days like that as well, on top of, oh, let's go do this hike or let's make sure we could check out this cool, you know, thing near the campsite, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Yeah. And I mean, I think that one of the things that trying to do too much does to you is you experience that RV or burnout. And I'm sure that world schooling can look very similar, especially if you're talking about like being somewhere for two or three nights, moving, two or three nights, because those two or three nights, you have one day to get there, one day to explore, and one day to finish up and leave. And so, like, that's two nights, right? And if you have 90 days and you're trying to do it all, you know, we've been traveling, like I said, for a long time, but we still haven't been to all 50 states. And it's okay if you can say, okay, I want to pick three points on the map that are my absolute musts during my 90 days in Australia, and then work your schedule around those three points. That's a totally different mindset than I have to do with the whole country in 90 days. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

So right.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

So let's jump into money because we have to talk about money. So, Tasha, if you could go anywhere in the world right now, where would you want to go? Let's let Suzy break down that. Oh my gosh. I know, pick a point on the map. Susie, you should know right now that we don't practice any of this. Whoever has the host guide is the only one with the host guide, so it's all natural.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Love it. My answer is like my gut answer is always Paris. But it's like I've been to Paris, but my gut answer is always Paris because I love Paris so much. Um, but let's say Tokyo, because I've never been there. And Rosewood really wants me to take them to Tokyo. So let's say Tokyo.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

So Rosewood might come home if you were to go to Tokyo.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Rosewood, sign me up, give me flights. They would come home. They would quit everything they were doing and come home if I said, if I dangle the Tokyo trip, they'd be like, on the next, whatever mode of transportation they needed to be on, they would be on it.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I think we should also say, Rosewood, right now, if you're watching, this is not your mom booking Tokyo.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

But it but if I do my job, it might be booking Tokyo.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

And and Rosewood knows Susie is exactly very good at what she does. So, you know, Rosewood knows there's a chance.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

I'll be waiting for their call to be like, thank you for that. Pushing my mom to go ahead and book Tokyo. No, I I will say though, that's one thing I actually love about world schooling and just all these communities is like no one does it the same way. And so sometimes I have a hard time being like, you should do this, because I actually don't 100% know if that's the way someone else would want it, you know, especially on a podcast where you're speaking to lots of people. So I just love to present different ideas and ways to think about it. So I'm not going to 100% convince you to book Tokyo tomorrow. But I'm curious what about Tokyo sounds interesting. And if you want to blend a little bit of what you love about Paris into this answer, I think that would be great too. I'm just curious, like what sounds appealing about going to this destination?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Rosewood is very enamorate of the culture, the art, the music, the food. Oh my gosh, the food. Everything that I love about Paris, Rosewood loves about Tokyo. So the things that I would be spending time doing in Paris, going to the museums, seeing the architecture, seeing the even down to, I know this is gonna sound weird, but like weird things like vending machines are different in Tokyo. Street vendors in Tokyo, street vendors in Paris were different. You know, you could walk up and get a crepe on the side of the street. Crepes on the street are very important to me, but definitely street food is going to be very important to Rosewood. Um, clothing style, art is gonna be a huge thing for Rosewood. A huge thing. So I think that we would be spending a lot of time at museums and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Can I ask a question before you answer, Susie? So I have a friend. He uh actually went to China as a teacher for several years, but he was enamored with Chinese culture. And so very much like Rosewood. But what he didn't anticipate was the culture shot on the street. Do you think that Rosewood would find that as well in Tokyo?

SPEAKER_02 27:46

I think to a certain degree. So I think one of the benefits that Rosewood has is that um they did go on that tap trip to Jamaica. And when you go on a trip with TAP, part of the training before you go is there is a whole training and education about that culture shock and what to expect whenever you jump into a new culture, what happens, what what you should expect whenever you are learning and you're fully enveloped in a new people, in a new culture, in a new world. They picked up several techniques of ways to decompress that kind of anxiety. So I think that they would be ready for it, which is which is good.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

And you're right. I think there's plenty of things that someone could do ahead of time to somewhat prepare them for, and this is almost easier now with YouTube. You can watch videos about a location, and I do this with my kids as well. Like last summer we did a pop-up in Sarajevo, and so we did some educational, but also like a family that was traveling around Sarajevo to get an idea of what it could look like. And so I think if you can visualize it, it does help when you're on the ground there. And there's a lot of people that are currently, you know, if you join sort of Facebook groups or other things, you can ask some of those like awkward, I'm brand new there, like this is who I am. Like, what should I expect? What can I do? And we are going to Japan this fall, by the way. So I actually have this giant book here. Uh and so I I grabbed it because it's been on my my nightstand. So I've been doing some reading because Japan somewhat intimidates me as well. I just feel like between the language and I've never been there and like the culture is gonna be very different. I feel like if I'm really prepared on um what to expect and how to basically make sure the first week goes really quite smooth, that it's going to set us up for success. And I 100% know that we're gonna have some hiccups, we're gonna have some rough moments, we're going to be lost on the side of the road, wondering which train or what that sign says. So some of it's just preparing for that.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

And it's okay as you all get on the same train.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah, exactly. As long as we're all on the same train. If we go in the wrong direction, we'll just all get back on the other one. Uh, we're watching right now, there's this show called Jetlag. It's these three guys that go on the scavenger hunt around different countries. And so they did a six, six-part series in Japan, and they were trying to find each other with clues, and it was really fun. And we got to see a lot of the Japan trains and how they navigate it. So you could definitely do some of this prepped work and think ahead and make sure you kind of land with some things squared away and build in some time for jet lags so you're able to just ease in to the culture and the time zone instead of like thinking by day one you're going to be doing lots of stuff because you're not. Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

I will say when I went to Paris, I went with a class and the professors that took us, they had us do something when we got off the plane, which I thought was really, really smart. We landed and it was like noon and everyone was exhausted. Um, but they would not let us go to sleep. They had us put everything down and we went out. We went walking through a park, we went and got dinner. It wasn't a um like a an overly exerting day. It wasn't a very full day, but we stayed awake and then we went to bed when it was time to go to bed. And so that kind of helped us like correct our jet lag and our mix up of time zones faster. So that's one of the things that I try to do with us, and that tends to help nicely.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

So let's get into some real numbers. What does a money for a family of four? You're in Spain, let's use Spain as that guide, since that's where you are currently look like in real life and what you'd recommend to first timer.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Absolutely. And I'll pair that with one more thing I was gonna say about the Japan piece with Tasha, is that from everything you described about what you would want to do if and when I should say you and Rosa go to Tokyo. And I love that you said Tokyo. That shows me that you are fine with like staying in a smaller area. I mean, Tokyo is like 38 million people, so but you're not trying to see all of Japan in like one trip because I'm in this Japan Facebook group, and people are like, I don't know, is two days enough in in Osaka? And I plan on being there a whole week in October because I know that's not even enough. Tokyo is 38 million people. There's so many different things you could see. You could spend months in just Tokyo and probably not see everything. And so I think it's okay to also slow down and stay in one location. And a lot of the stuff you said, the street vendors, the food, the museums, you know, does it? That's like stuff you might be doing if you're just in your home base, you know, and so it allows you to basically live your typical life, but now just in a new cool place, you know, and so you get a longer term rental. I I don't think you could RV in central Tokyo, but you get a longer term rental. And maybe you're happy going in the off season because you have a flexible schedule and you don't you don't want to compete with every other tourist. And so you're there when it's maybe a little cooler and that's okay to be there in like December or February, and you're happy avoiding the cherry blossom season because I've heard that lasts like five days, anyhow. So why try to time it? Right. Instead, go in the fall when the leaves are gorgeous for like five weeks, you know. So maybe you're willing to sacrifice a little bit, like not seeing the cherry blossoms to be there at a better time for you, your family, cut down on costs a little bit. Um, also, I always recommend search the country you're going to, what their major holidays are, when their busy seasons are for travel, because that's something that you often don't think about and you're like, why is this hotel so expensive? I ran into this. I was like, why is September like on a Monday night full already? Oh, because that's actually like a holiday for them. So I now have written in all the Japanese holidays in this fall so I can be aware of when other people might be traveling and honestly not do something that weekend because locals are going to be already taking advantage of the time off. But as far as like expenses with Spain, there's of course gonna be a wide variety. But I think the main aspects to consider anytime you're traveling are the four big big buckets accommodations, which RV would fall under if you are RVing. Sometimes you know you find the right person in a Facebook group who's like happy to swap their RV to come stay at your house if you do home exchange slash weird, cool, fun exchanges like that. So the accommodation slash RV price is one. And then food price is another big one. The slower we travel, or if we travel with our own kitchen like an RV, we can really practice. You know, this is where if you've been already RVing and you're already a pro at like slicing and dicing and cooking in a little RV kitchen, you're gonna be well prepared for the small uh kitchens that you have in Europe and you're gonna continue to at least cook one or two meals a day, and that cuts down on your food expenses. And then the other one that I consider is transportation, getting around. So getting to and from Europe can be expensive. I love to talk points in miles, and that's how we do a lot of our flights because really we only do like one or two round trip flights to Europe a year from the US, because we'll come in January and go back to the US in June. And so it's the round trip, but there's just six months apart. And someone might spend that same amount on flights for a seven-day trip, but I'm getting, you know, five and a half months in Spain out of that. So the slower we travel, we can spread out those large transportation expenses. And then how we're getting around day to day plays a role. If I can be in a walkable city where I don't need a car and I can learn the public transit, which I get, if you're there for six days, four nights, whatever, you're not gonna maybe be able to like navigate the app in a different language, foreign transit, you know. But if you're there longer, it makes it a lot easier to navigate. And when I use my bus pass here in Sevilla, it is 50 cents a ride and I can go anywhere in town. And so that is going to be much cheaper than a cab, cabify or an Uber or things like that. Walking is also free, which is a great way to get around a lot of walkable cities um, or just being outside and nature, all the cool things RVs can afford you, you know, like really cool places just explore right from your doorstep or a day at the beach, it can be really low cost. So the longer and we're in a location, we can really slow down on that. And even if RVing, you know, if we're if we're like piecing together parts along like the coasts of Spain and we're not trying to travel more than uh, you know, maybe an hour a day, to be honest, you can see some quite varied terrain and different beaches and just get some Spanish variety without having to put a lot of miles on, you know, gas costs and things like that can certainly be higher in Europe. Um, and then the fourth one is activities slash kids schooling curriculum. And this is where RV, you know, your like nature is your playground. Sometimes you don't need much, but like a bucket and the beach all day and your kids are great, or a hike, you know, things like that. But activities can sometimes add up if you're trying to be in a big city and see all the things like uh going to the top of the Eiffel Tower in Paris is gonna be a little more expensive than just taking a picture from the bottom. But hey, I was there. Yeah, so you just want to maybe picture, like write down as a family or or you know, with your traveling crew, like what is most important. And you know, don't go cheap on the most important things on that list. Like do those big things that really excite you. But if it's not like that, I really want to spend money on this and we're just doing it because it looks cool, or hey, we're in Paris just this once, you know, maybe it's okay to skip some of those expensive stuff and just do the daily, hey, what is going on in the plaza? And the longer you're in a location, you get to see what holidays are going on, what festivals are happening that you didn't even really know about. And there's like every weekend in Sevilla, there's something going on, but you don't always know about it because it's not the big, big festivals. For example, um, Samana Santa, they have nine days of processions, a million people come to Sevilla over Easter break. Uh, but even just today, the the church right by us was having their procession. These processions, which are really what draw a million people to Sevilla over Easter break, they actually happen multiple times a year. If you realize that and it's important for you to see one, you can actually go to one at a different time of year that maybe isn't going to be as packed or as crazy or last overnight, but you still get a taste of the culture and the tradition. So slowing down lets you really spend time to think about it. It's really about what's most important.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

I have friends that have done Europe with a company called Trusted House Sitters, where they did a house swap. I've had friends that have gone to Europe and Africa, even with uh fantasy RV tours and uh adventure caravans. And so those are not cheap tours, they're upwards of $15,000 to $20,000 in most cases, but everything's done for you. So if you're looking for that luxury tour, that once-in-a-lifetime thing, there are other ways to do this. And if you're solo or just a couple, that might be the way you choose to do it because you don't have to plan any of this, and you're going with people that are from the United States. And so they may be new to you, but they're not like they're all you're all new to this whole experience together. And so I think there's something special about that too. But in this situation, you know, you're kind of doing it solo. What would you say the biggest budget mistake is that people make for traveling like outside the US in particular?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I'd say the first one is definitely moving too fast. Uh, but also for maybe skipping over or not taking a moment to think more about those second-tier European cities. You know, we've uh Paris is lovely. We've all heard of Paris and Barcelona and what else? London, uh Munich. I mean, those cities are great. Maybe do that as a weekend, right? But home, home base yourself for a longer chunk of time out of some of those second-tier cities. So these are maybe the five to tenth biggest cities in in that in that country, or cities that you're like, hi, I've heard of it, but I mean, what's really there? Because the cool thing about Europe is that those cities probably have just as much history. They have really cool, like central plazas and centros, lots of good museums and stuff you just wouldn't have even known about. And you're going to get at half the price as Paris. Um, off season is where I would go for Paris, though, to get a good price. Like go in like January.

unknown 39:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yeah. And so, yeah, like certainly like the the Parisian vibe, I think can be felt in other cities too, just other parts of France, that would just give you a different taste for the French culture, the food. And possibly, to be honest, even more accessible to the people that live there. You know, Parisians are known for not being the most welcoming because they get millions of tourists a year. And then you go to a smaller city and they're like, whoa, where are you from? Or, you know, they might want to strike up a conversation or just be more happy that you came to the city.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

So let's talk income for just a second. Is there anything that they would need to know, like legally speaking? And I know you're not a lawyer, but like about working inside other countries, is that allowed?

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Yes. And this is where your company might be different than the country you're going to. And if you're going to a country that has a digital nomad visa and you want to stay there, that is like the best way to be most legit. But if you're there on a tourist visa, just don't advertise that you're checking your email and you're working a little bit. You know, you're there to see the culture because honestly, think about it. Your work hours might be 35 hours a week, but you're in Paris for 168 hours that week. Like you're actually spending most of your time experiencing Paris and a little bit of the time during your work hours. If someone does have like a W-2 job at a large company, they might be very strict about working from Spain. I have a friend, uh, they're going to Spain this summer, and her husband's come, they're going to be there for five weeks, and he's working for like two weeks of it. And his company like wanted him to start the process. You can be here for 90 days before you even start to your digital nomad visa. So technically, he'll be back in the US before he even needs to, because he'll only be here five weeks. So talk to an immigration lawyer specific to your situation, but your company may have more restrictions, honestly, than the country you're going to. And so do a little research on the country and where you're going to. I will always say, even if you are not working, you're not W-2, you're not self-employed, and you're going to a country to do a house sit. You mentioned trusted house sitters. We love them. I'm spending all summer in uh trusted house sitters in in a Colorado. UK is where that site, I think, started because there are so many house sits in the in the United Kingdom. And again, it's English speaking, it could be really easy. You could spend an entire summer just piecing together house sits in different parts of the UK, right? And staying for free, which is a huge cost savings. But you're not going to tell, like you're there to see the UK. And yes, you happen to be staying at someone's house and feeding their dog, right? But there are some wonky rules around like working or like for a local company, right? So the less you advertise, again, talk to a lawyer. I'm not recommending specifics, but you know, focus on your main goal for being there is to experience the British culture, right? That's what you're doing 99% of the time, but you are staying at someone's house and helping feed their dog, right? Is that really work? No. But some countries get a little wonky. So the less you tell them and give them a reason to look at you and say, huh, should we should we raise a stink about this or not? You know, focus more on I'm here on the tourist visa and I'm here to see the sites. And so many of them don't even ask anymore. They just like check your stamp or check your visa, you know, all those different things and you just walk through, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Yeah, it's oftentimes the US customs, it's far harder. If you that's my experience.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Uh that German, the German family, like they were saying, like, yeah, when we're in the US, we can't work, even though he works online, fully remote, like technically he physically could, but they opt to not when he's there and they have someone else do majority of the work back from Germany, and he's just like consulting, like talking on the phone, you know. This is where it is kind of a gray area. And so you always want to double check, you know, cross your T's, dot your I's. Uh, don't only take my word here, but you know, focus really on the reason that you're there is to see the culture, see the sites, and you happen to be house sitting along the way, or you happen to be checking some emails here and there because that's life, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

So I think it's interesting that you said you did trusted house sitters with your kids, not without them. Cause I guess I was under the impression that you couldn't do it with kids. Which could change my life dramatically, actually.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

There is a family-friendly setting. If you turn that on, you can search for family-friendly properties on Trusted House Sitters. There are lots of families, especially again if you're traveling around the summer or those main school holiday breaks. We're staying at two houses this summer, a total of uh seven weeks, and they have kids. They're traveling because it's the summer. So they're actually really happy that we have kids because their dogs are used to being around kids. They're gonna get so much love and attention from kids, and there's toys, and we get a whole house to be at. And so, trusted house sitters would be a great way to just take a break every once in a while. You can almost guaranteed get a sit around major holidays like Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, uh maybe spring break here and there. Certainly in the summer, I still have the settings for Colorado this summer, and I see new ones popping up all the time for a weekend or even two weeks. They're still popping up for like next month. So you never know what can pop up. You obviously have to be flexible, and the priority is taking care of the house and the dog. I find that it works really well though. If you are still working a little bit, because you tend to be at the property a little more, or if you are like a couple or a family, like one of us is out and about all day, but the other one's at the house working anyhow. So it actually is good because some of them have restrictions on how long they want someone to be home. Whereas if I was traveling solo or just like without kids, I feel like I would want to be out all day because you have this flexibility to do it. But with kids, we're actually at the house more. Like we might come home for lunch or take an afternoon break and walk the dogs again, or you know, we're inside at a decent hour, we're not partying all night. So they're usually much more willing to have families. So yeah, I would definitely start searching for family-friendly for trusted house sitters. You just never know what you're gonna find.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

My 19-year-old, like she's looking at work camping jobs for maybe this fall, um, you know, where there's housing available. She's also looking at the possibility she'll be 20 by then that trusted house sitters might be something she decides to do instead for, you know, a couple months. And so she has that flexibility to come home.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

I think you'll find a lot of sits uh for that website in the UK and the US, and then people that are like predominantly English speaking. I've have seen less in some countries, but then there are other more like for whatever country you're going to, maybe there's a website for house sitting that is a little more targeted to that country or Facebook groups I've seen. So it does take a little bit more time and effort to navigate some of these ways to save money while traveling. I do often feel like it's worth it. For example, we are staying seven of the eight weeks will be in Colorado this summer. We're staying at Trusted House Sitters. And so the one week we're not, we're we're happy to pay for an Airbnb because we need to repack for Japan. I don't really want to take care of a pet that week, I've decided. But that's a thousand dollars for one week. So I can kind of rationalize that the other seven weeks, we're saving a seven thousand dollars by being able to stay for free. And that's a huge shift in the expenses. Um, also because we have friends and family, we're like Colorado's kind of our home base. Like, I don't have much interest in doing like expensive things there. We're gonna spend quite a bit more, I think, in Japan. And so we're going to offset it with like a pretty chill two months because you know, we need to just look at our budget holistically, like through the whole year, because it ebbs and flows when you travel. Some months are gonna be more expensive, some months are less. So months to months doesn't always work to track. But my number one tip for all this is to really track your expenses. And so I have a same spreadsheet that I have been tracking our expenses on since 2016. I still have like a new month. I just re like duplicate and rename it, and I just keep going. And it's not many categories, it's pretty basic. And I get a sense for like, okay, what are we making that month? What are we like gonna probably spend that month? And I can just look ahead and make sure we're overall on track with what we have coming in versus what we have coming out. And so I think that is really good to track expenses and use it more as data points to make informed decisions instead of like arguing with a partner over finances because we're on the same team. Let's look at data as a way to make informed choices.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

So, Tasha, because you're driving, it's been a little bit different for you. What is the one question you still have for Susie while we have her on? You know, because it's not gonna be like we can just pick up the phone and call her tomorrow because we're gonna be different times.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Well, I hate to break it to you. Guess where I'm gonna be tomorrow? Granted, it's only for a layover. You're gonna be Harris, aren't you? Oh, you're killing me. So make sure you send a picture to us. I'm gonna take a picture of a croissant and then like and I'll I'm like, wish I could package it up and send it to you. But when you said that, I'll be so funny.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

I'm it'll be so buttery and flaky and delicious. I know.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Uh well, uh, Tusk and I both one complication with our families is we have kids that have allergies. Traveling with kids with allergies is a whole nother level. So, like when she said Tokyo, I was going, I don't know if we could do that because I don't know if the soy sauce has gluten. So it's something as simple as that. Like, we don't eat a lot of Asian food unless we make it at home now. And my Asian food is not Asian food, like it's just American Asian food. And so I I can do a good stir fry, but it's still not the same as going to an authentic Asian restaurant. And the one place we can go that's safe is not American Asian food. It's like going to like Olive Garden for Italian food. Yeah. So, you know, PF Chang's does some good gluten-free options, but it's still just PF Chang's. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

I was with the family, three of the four in their family are gluten-free. And she had to walk around to a couple different places. And one of the pizza places even said like sin gluten. This was in Naples. And so one even they had like this permanent sign that said sin gluten pizza. It's like they must get asked that every day. Which I was like, well, then they should try to offer it because clearly it's desire. And if they're so willing to tell us that they don't do it. So I absolutely, this is where um preparation ahead of time can really help. I certainly I'm a very selective eater. He loves rice. I was like, oh, if we we can eat in Japan.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

We can eat anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

So, like maybe bringing at least like some safe foods with would be a great, you know, it's fine if you have half a suitcase's food going over because it leaves room for you to bring home some fun souvenirs if that's you know what you want to pick up.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Should we come home with t-shirts?

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

I have I already place all of the food with t-shirts and there you go.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

That's awesome. So it's good, you know, you just swap, like eat the food as you go, and then you get to do some more shopping. It's a good excuse. And I also like to think, like, probably, and like again, this is very much a generalization because every allergy and every food situation is different, but probably there is someone in that country that has the same situation, you know, and so they they must eat and survive in that country as well. And so there must be a way. And it just requires maybe having a really good Google Translate. Some people have printed in multiple languages what their needs are. So at a restaurant, they can just show it and like like especially if it's like like, do not like please make sure this dish does not have this. And so then if it's in that language, it's so easy to make sure that that is communicated.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

All right, so let's go back to Tasha because she's got to have a question by now. And so I I it may be five.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

So I do have a question. So my question for Susie is more about what you want. I know that on your podcast, you have had the opportunity to interview a lot of people who have traveled in lots of different places. So my question for you is where is the place that you have not been yet? That and Japan cannot be your answer. Where is the place? Where is the place that you have not been yet? That you're like, this is now at the top of my list. This is where I need to go. I've heard, I've heard enough good things. This is it.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Well, because traveling is like trying on all sorts of wedding dresses. The more you try on, the more places you want to do it. So I get that.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

And then you finally buy one and you wear it and you're like, oh man, I also should have that one and that one. So yeah, you you do have to practice being present. But this is a really fun question. Great question. I have definitely heard many stories, and it makes me want to throw slow travel out the window and just go see it all as quickly as possible because you know, tomorrow's not never a given, right? And um, you know, why not just have a good time while while we're here on this lovely planet Earth? But I will say actually, just recently I spoke with um uh an amazing family, amazing woman that is they've been in Tanzania for the last eight years. Husband is from Tanzania, they met there in Tanzania and then were in the States for a while, and now they've been back and they put on a four-week world schooling hub near where they live. One of the cultural activities is honestly going to her mother-in-law's house for a cooking class. They go to the market, then they get the local foods, they go back, they make the food with grandma who's been making this food for you know her whole life, and the kids are playing in the street, and then the parents are learning how to cook and you know, finishing it up usually because the kids have lost interest halfway through. That just sounded like a really cool experience. And as far as a safari and animals, my kids are not animal obsessed, and also I think that they are a little too young for that, but I just know that it is one of those experiences that I think um can really just open your mind to like how big and beautiful this planet is, that there are these amazing people and these amazing animals, and there's the efforts that go into conserving the animals and prioritizing, you know, their land in combination with all these other economic situation issues in these countries. So it would be fascinating to go do this hub. And they start every morning with yoga and they really focus on just like getting to know the people in the culture. And I could probably spend six months and I wouldn't have the same level of depth as I would if I just tap in to this woman and her family who love to welcome people to their hub. And so it's a way to you know support a local industry, a local business, a local family, as well as just have that really cool experience. I just don't think I could recreate on my own. I feel like that's worth saving up for and preparing for.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

There's a whole world schooling community far beyond the reach of what, you know. So this is my last question for you. What do you want someone to feel when they finish this episode?

SPEAKER_00 54:34

I would hope that they feel inspired to look outside their comfort zone, perhaps. And maybe that is our being in the US, right? Again, there's some amazing opportunities in the US. I don't want to discount what the experiences could provide to someone and maybe they're perfectly happy with that. But I would just feel that if they could walk away a little inspired to think, okay, have I gotten a little comfortable here? Am I ready to go somewhere where maybe I don't speak the language? Maybe I look different than the people around me, or maybe I'm wondering, you know, I'll I'm going to have to navigate some really potentially uncomfortable situations. But I think that I can walk away with just a greater appreciation for how diverse this planet is and the different opportunities that are afforded. And sometimes when we go somewhere, it makes us appreciate what we have back at home just as much as well. So there are benefits to that. Even if it's not always, I call it type two fun. It's like the fun that you look back on after, but it wasn't fun in the moment. Even if you have type two fun on your travels outside the US, you're gonna come back and have those memories to look back on, and it's gonna make you appreciate what you have here even more.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

Yeah, and those are what I call my campfire stories. Some of them are great, some of them are not great, and some of them are just something you can lack look back and go, This is what I learned. And you know, kind of learned RV is born out of that. This is what I learned.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Absolutely. It's like usually when things don't go well, is actually when we walk away with more personal growth and those fun stories. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Susie, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_00 56:03

Yes, I have a website, susiemaywander.com. That's also my Instagram, susiemay.wander and Facebook. And then the podcast is Wander World School, helping families plan and fund slow and long-term travel. And we do solo episodes that are a little more educational, talking about different topics, and then also plenty of interviews from traveling families as well as world school creators and leaders. But I find a lot of world schoolers tend to also be traveling families, so there's quite a bit of overlap there. But it's an opportunity to shine a light on families that are doing some really cool stuff around the world, and also uh peel back the uh layers on the financial and the logistical side of it because again, that is a big question. So I ask people maybe what a typical one-month snapshot would be based on whatever country they're in, or how much their gap year is costing them, or what are some of the logistical ways that they've been navigating education for kids or transportation, getting around, work on the road. So it's a wide variety of people doing this in so many different ways. And I hope that someone can find 55 episodes already and more to come. So hopefully there's some out there that could offer some inspiration to your listeners.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

That's awesome. We'll have all of that in the show notes. And if you're out there listening today, whether you've got kids in the back of your rig right now and you're already traveling or you're just dreaming about this lifestyle, or maybe you're the aunt that's gonna go text this episode to your niece and say, This is it. Thank you for just coming to the campfire today and having this conversation. That's why we show up and do what we do. Well, thanks so much, Susie May, for coming. And you know, don't forget to like, follow, and subscribe to Learn to RV the podcast. You can get all the information over at learntorv.com on a regular basis. Don't forget to show up for the scavenger hunt this summer. It's gonna be a thing. All of July. Thanks for joining us on this campfire episode. Thank you so much to everything you touched. This has been so much fun. We'll see you around the campfire next time.